There are times when we have to confront others with the truth of Scripture. This is a note where the names have been changed to protect the innocent. However I am approaching another "professing" Christian who insists that a close friend (unsaved) is basically a good person with a good heart. The problem is the behavior has been consistently bad for many years. Problems occur when the counsel we give others is inconsistent with the clear truth of God's word. Here is my letter to this particular person.
I have been concerned and confused as to your take on the Bible as the authoritative word of God. This morning I called the church you attend and asked them about their doctrinal statement and statement of faith. It was rather difficult to find on the website and therefore I called and routed to the pastor's secretary. Basically I copied from documentation given to me for you to reference below. Since you have been an active member there for 50 plus years then I am concluding you concur with the doctrine and practices of this church. I point blank asked the pastor's secretary if this church in Charlotte believe the following 4 things about the Bible:
1. Inspired
2. Revealed
3. Inerrant
4. Infallible
She answered yes to my question.
I recall having a conversation with you some time back where you expressed a problem with some of these things. Maybe I am misquoting you on this and if so I apologize. As you know Nancy and I are giving our lives to the word of God being learned and lived as the authority for our lives. Joe, it was the cry of the Reformation that said "we will only believe and do what the Bible says."
Let me emphasize that in regard to this issue of Ingrid, I am not interested in what you think, or what I think, but rather what God thinks and has to say about these things. I believe your pastor would agree with me on this point. We have a major point of disagreement in regard to Ingrid. You think Ingrid is a "good" person but unfortunately this is not how the Bible speaks. The Lord Jesus addresses the heart of man in Mark 7:21-23 - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. "All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."
The greatest doctrine we have on salvation was written by the apostle Paul in Romans.
He talks about the universal condition of man in Romans 1:18-3:20. Read carefully Romans 3:10-12:
Rom. 3:10 as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom. 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom. 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Again from the words of the Lord Jesus in his famous "Sermon on the Mount" in Matthew 7:18-19- So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Joe, I have studied these verses in depth. There is no way you can look at Ingrid's behavior over the past 25 years in her marriage and see the consistent production of good fruit, as a matter of fact one sees just the opposite. And there is a simple answer to that question given by the Lord Jesus Himself. The reason is because the tree is bad!
Therefore Nancy and I are and remain convinced not on what we think but on the authority of God's word that Ingrid at this time is not a "good" person. Joe I have shared these types of things with Ingrid in the past. Again I have taken a Galatians 6:1 approach to Ingrid, which says "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness..." However I agree with Pastor Jones that much bolder actions now need to be taken with her. I am in favor of a Jude 23 approach which says "save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh." Or even a 1 Corinthians 5:5 approach in which the apostle Paul writes of a wayward brother "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." As a matter of fact this is how Pastor Jones has been praying in regard to Ingrid and her ongoing behavior.
If you want to know the Biblical solution for Ingrid it has been clearly expressed through Old and New Testament. The solution for Ingrid is to Repent and Believe! It was the first sermon that the Lord Jesus preached in Mark 1:15. In my opinion and others who have talked to Ingrid and know her, there has been no genuine repentence. He has a worldly type of sorrow in what he did, and in the fact that he got caught. But it was in fact her lack of repentence, that caused Pastor Jones to ask Ingrid to leave the church. Joe, that is called church discipline and she still remains under the discipline of this church.
Joe, I have been and continue to pray that God would do whatever He needs to do, in order to bring Ingrid supernaturally to Himself.
gripped by His grace,
P.S. - This is a copy of the churches doctrinal beliefs and practices concerning the Bible. I think as we continue to talk about these things it should be our plumb line or ultimate compass to guide our counsel and discussion.
The church confesses the Scriptures to be the Word of God written, witnessing to God's self-revelation. Where that Word is read and proclaimed, Jesus Christ the Living Word is present by the inward witness of the Holy Spirit. For this reason the reading, hearing, preaching, and confessing of the Word are central to Christian worship. The session shall ensure that in public worship the Scripture is read and proclaimed regularly in the common language(s) of the particular church. (Book of Order W-2.2001)
Leaders in the church can be expected to affirm that "... the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments...[are]...., by the Holy Spirit, the unique and authoritative witness to Jesus Christ in the Church universal, and God's Word to [them]." (Book of Order G-14.0405b.2)
The church professes adherence to the traditional statements of Presbyterianism -- the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Westminster Shorter Catechism, and the Westminster Larger Catechism -- though it views them as subordinate to the Bible, which alone is viewed as the inspired Word of God, a viewpoint which encompasses the doctrine of inerrancy in matters of fact, history, and teaching.
I have been concerned and confused as to your take on the Bible as the authoritative word of God. This morning I called the church you attend and asked them about their doctrinal statement and statement of faith. It was rather difficult to find on the website and therefore I called and routed to the pastor's secretary. Basically I copied from documentation given to me for you to reference below. Since you have been an active member there for 50 plus years then I am concluding you concur with the doctrine and practices of this church. I point blank asked the pastor's secretary if this church in Charlotte believe the following 4 things about the Bible:
1. Inspired
2. Revealed
3. Inerrant
4. Infallible
She answered yes to my question.
I recall having a conversation with you some time back where you expressed a problem with some of these things. Maybe I am misquoting you on this and if so I apologize. As you know Nancy and I are giving our lives to the word of God being learned and lived as the authority for our lives. Joe, it was the cry of the Reformation that said "we will only believe and do what the Bible says."
Let me emphasize that in regard to this issue of Ingrid, I am not interested in what you think, or what I think, but rather what God thinks and has to say about these things. I believe your pastor would agree with me on this point. We have a major point of disagreement in regard to Ingrid. You think Ingrid is a "good" person but unfortunately this is not how the Bible speaks. The Lord Jesus addresses the heart of man in Mark 7:21-23 - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. "All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."
The greatest doctrine we have on salvation was written by the apostle Paul in Romans.
He talks about the universal condition of man in Romans 1:18-3:20. Read carefully Romans 3:10-12:
Rom. 3:10 as it is written,
"THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
Rom. 3:11 THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
Rom. 3:12 ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
Again from the words of the Lord Jesus in his famous "Sermon on the Mount" in Matthew 7:18-19- So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Joe, I have studied these verses in depth. There is no way you can look at Ingrid's behavior over the past 25 years in her marriage and see the consistent production of good fruit, as a matter of fact one sees just the opposite. And there is a simple answer to that question given by the Lord Jesus Himself. The reason is because the tree is bad!
Therefore Nancy and I are and remain convinced not on what we think but on the authority of God's word that Ingrid at this time is not a "good" person. Joe I have shared these types of things with Ingrid in the past. Again I have taken a Galatians 6:1 approach to Ingrid, which says "Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness..." However I agree with Pastor Jones that much bolder actions now need to be taken with her. I am in favor of a Jude 23 approach which says "save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh." Or even a 1 Corinthians 5:5 approach in which the apostle Paul writes of a wayward brother "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." As a matter of fact this is how Pastor Jones has been praying in regard to Ingrid and her ongoing behavior.
If you want to know the Biblical solution for Ingrid it has been clearly expressed through Old and New Testament. The solution for Ingrid is to Repent and Believe! It was the first sermon that the Lord Jesus preached in Mark 1:15. In my opinion and others who have talked to Ingrid and know her, there has been no genuine repentence. He has a worldly type of sorrow in what he did, and in the fact that he got caught. But it was in fact her lack of repentence, that caused Pastor Jones to ask Ingrid to leave the church. Joe, that is called church discipline and she still remains under the discipline of this church.
Joe, I have been and continue to pray that God would do whatever He needs to do, in order to bring Ingrid supernaturally to Himself.
gripped by His grace,
P.S. - This is a copy of the churches doctrinal beliefs and practices concerning the Bible. I think as we continue to talk about these things it should be our plumb line or ultimate compass to guide our counsel and discussion.
The church confesses the Scriptures to be the Word of God written, witnessing to God's self-revelation. Where that Word is read and proclaimed, Jesus Christ the Living Word is present by the inward witness of the Holy Spirit. For this reason the reading, hearing, preaching, and confessing of the Word are central to Christian worship. The session shall ensure that in public worship the Scripture is read and proclaimed regularly in the common language(s) of the particular church. (Book of Order W-2.2001)
Leaders in the church can be expected to affirm that "... the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments...[are]...., by the Holy Spirit, the unique and authoritative witness to Jesus Christ in the Church universal, and God's Word to [them]." (Book of Order G-14.0405b.2)
The church professes adherence to the traditional statements of Presbyterianism -- the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Westminster Shorter Catechism, and the Westminster Larger Catechism -- though it views them as subordinate to the Bible, which alone is viewed as the inspired Word of God, a viewpoint which encompasses the doctrine of inerrancy in matters of fact, history, and teaching.
